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Author: Subject: Rules and Regs
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[*] posted on 3-8-2008 at 10:35 AM Reply With Quote
Rules and Regs



The BATFE's website has a ton of info on it. Here's the link:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/index.htm




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Heineken500
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[*] posted on 12-21-2008 at 10:52 AM Reply With Quote


The BATF is full of [Censored] like most agencies. They offer nothing but excuses and article after article after article of decisions that were made years ago and their website isn't user friendly at all: no, it's not. And when a layman like myself and 99% of gun owners click on that useless link to go to another page "if you can't view the applications", surprise, surprise: the link doesn't go anywhere! There's not even a description of FFL's on their own website! If there is, well then it's hidden. Isn't it obvious the BATF doesn't want more citizens to be educated and obtain the proper credentials? It is to me. I wonder how many FFL applications they deny and if that simple information can be obtained. I bet it can't. They want to keep citizens in the dark. It's so obvious. Friggin BATF.
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Heineken500
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[*] posted on 12-21-2008 at 11:19 AM Reply With Quote


continued.....
Long story short. These guys here: http://www.fflanswers.com claim FFL holders, especially those holding a Type 1 and Type 6, can grandfather their collections AND their right to reload when/if any new bans come into effect. An FFL holder needs certification from their State university as an official Reloader and an FFL holder can also obtain their certification to "protect" their collections. I'm looking into it. Some states have just outlawed powder and brass being in the same vicinity and have cleverly reworded their new law banning brass and powder being in the same container: bullets. I don't know the validity of said law but why would a gun owner lie to that extent? It only makes sense that the anti-gunners go after ammo since they've failed in their repeated attempts to outlaw weapons.
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mpowers
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[*] posted on 12-21-2008 at 04:11 PM Reply With Quote


I agree that they should have more info regarding what each license is and how they work.

As far as getting certified from a State University, I don't think ATF would even consider that.
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[*] posted on 12-21-2008 at 04:45 PM Reply With Quote


I know, the ATF might not even consider it. Why would they?
That's why I'm still rolling the idea around in my stupid head.
And that's probably why the folks over at fflanswers haven't answered me yet. I simply asked them by my paying for and obtaining (by taking an exam) I can "protect my collection and my right to purchase ammo" with ONE certification. The folks at fflanswers.com claim "yes". And the certification is good "in all 50 states". Therefore, with these credentials, one can go anywhere in America and even online and flash these State accredited credentials and be able to purchase ammo wholesale and any new bans won't effect ones "collection". No, I'm not talking about C&R. I'm talking about a collection or...uh oh....GASP "CACHE" of firearms made after 1946. Hence one should obtain an FFL Type 1. Because as far as I know, there isn't a specific FFL that recognizes a collector of firearms manufactured AFTER 1946 but the Type 1. Follow? Now that I think about about it, maybe it's not up to ATF to decide. If the various manufacturers of powder and brass recognize one as a reloader with State accredidation, what's the difference if the ATF doesn't? The ATF doesn't legislate....your own state does and the Fed's can pass laws to forbid one owning a particular weapon and/or ammo....
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poconoman
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[*] posted on 12-21-2008 at 05:27 PM Reply With Quote


Maybe you should ask ATF what they think of this school and it's claims.
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Heineken500
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[*] posted on 12-22-2008 at 05:22 AM Reply With Quote


The ATF and State legislators are in kahoots. If the BATF's own website doesn't have information on it and has links that go nowhere, I don't see how contacting them will help. I'll simply get the run around and open ended answers like "We don't no sir" "We're not the Department of Education sir". The certifications fflanswers are claiming can "protect" your collection AND another certification that can "protect" your ability to reload and own bullets/ammo are just that: claims. For the sake of argument, I believe if one has these credentials AND the appropriate FFLs, one would simply go to a supplier or website like Gun Broker.com and show these credentials and according to fflanswers.com, that's good enough for them since the State and/or the Feds wiped out all of our 2nd amendement rights for anyone that DOESN'T have the credentials. Therefore, fflaswers are simply saying obtaining these certifications will protect your rights from the new ban effectively grandfathering your collection and reloader rights. Follow?
Yes, going to the BATF website or calling them makes sense, but in light of what I said and the complete lack of important links on their site, not going anywhere, it makes no sense to me to even waste my breath arguing with a government bueracricy. I'd have a better chance getting Governor Rendell on my phone.
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[*] posted on 12-22-2008 at 06:21 AM Reply With Quote


I simply don't know who to believe. On one hand, we've got an independent entity that claims having credentials will protect your rights and they've got every right to charge for their services. I sent them an email asking them to explain further, I've yet to hear back. On the other hand we've got a government beauracracy that doesn't feel they need to educate citizens and it's plainly obvious due to their lack of attention to simple links on their very own website that don't do anything. Nor does this agency (that you and I pay for), explain the various licenses one could obtain.
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[*] posted on 12-22-2008 at 06:25 AM Reply With Quote


FFlanswers.com simply says having an FFL isn't enough. Maybe they're right. But if you beleive that, cough up $218 (for TWO certifications) and test it out, that is, if you already have an FFL.
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[*] posted on 12-22-2008 at 09:38 AM Reply With Quote


"The Reloader Kit on the right is for those who want to protect their ammunition stockpile, sell and reload ammo, and open a shop-based FFL business at home for LE, military snipers, big game hunting, local hunters, etc. ATF allows custom gunsmithing and reloading for home based FFLs, but see the bottom choice below if you want high volume manufacturing rather than just light reloading. This is a GREAT option for those already doing reloading and handloading." What the fflanswers.com people are assuming is 1) The BATF makes the laws and 2). These laws will remain the SAME if a new ban comes into effect.
Above is just one example of a certification one can obtain...
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[*] posted on 12-22-2008 at 10:28 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by Heineken500
The BATF makes the laws and 2). These laws will remain the SAME if a new ban comes into effect.


Congress makes the laws. BATF just enforces them.
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[*] posted on 12-22-2008 at 10:33 AM Reply With Quote


Exactly! So one can take their chances and spend the $218 and by January 21st according to one of my friends, the laws will change and the ATF will have no choice but to enforce them. Therefore your money and the "certifications" you earned by taking an exam will all be for naught. It all depends on what one wants to believe. I don't want to believe the laws will change that suddenly, but even if they don't, Congress will find a way and then bang, sorry. Oh, you're certified? So. You're not a _______(insert new title here one must be to own ammo that certain members of Congress are now thinking up)...So sorry sir. Next. This may not sound likely but look what happened in '93 right?
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[*] posted on 12-22-2008 at 11:14 AM Reply With Quote


(F11) Is a license required to engage in the business of selling small arms ammunition?

No. A license is not required for a dealer in ammunition only, but a manufacturer or an importer of ammunition must be licensed.

[18 U.S.C. 922 (a)(1)(B)]

This is where the anti-gunners are going folks in my opinion. And the fflanswers.com people think so to. Therefore what they're saying is get your certification now because when one does have to be licensed, you'll get no help from BATF or your local ATF office on how to become legal/able to purchase ammo when the time comes.
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